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Talk:Impaz
Female }} Impaz as Sheikah Isn't it just as likely she is a descendant of one of the many Hylians living in Kakariko Village? As far as i remember (I could be wrong) she only claims she was named after the founder not directly related to it. On top of that I dont think Impa founded the village. I think it says somewhere she opened it up to the public and she says that she was born and raised there when talking to Link about climbing Death Mountain. Oni Link 12:37, August 8, 2010 (UTC) {{2sheikah4|text=ok it is as obvious she is a sheikah as link and zelda are hylian come on why is she not listed as a sheikah this is completly ridiculaus why is she not listed as one this is unreal! i mean she is in the sheikah catagory so for triforces sake please list her as sheikah even if you put a unconfirmed tag on it fine just i mean i cant even think right this is so ridiculas! Race Conversation moved from Talk:Traveling Merchants Ok i have been gone for a long time but have returned to address the biggest hipocrosy on this wiki why are these merchants listed as gorons? I have played both WW and WWHD yet recall no one ever reffering to them as gorons. A long time ago i tried my hardest to get impaz listed as a sheikah but was told something along the lines of "it doesnt matter how obvious or how heavily implied someones race is it is wikia policy to list all people with unconfirmed races as hylians." So why are they exempt from this? Yes they are gorons clear as day but that was never stated and can any of you honestly tell me you think impaz is a hylian and not a sheikah? Because there is just as much evidence for her being a sheikah as they gorons. :Uh... they're Gorons. The policy you're probably referring to is likely in place because both Hylians and Sheikah are extremely similar-looking, so instead of drawing unnecessary theories, it's safer to assume they are the most common humanoid race in Hyrule. These merchants, on the other hand, are clearly Gorons and don't resemble any other race. —'Ceiling Master' 14:08, June 23, 2016 (UTC) While i know that, the policy as it was told to me did not specify anything about only applying to human like races and how is it safer to assume impaz is hylian? Can you or anyone else honestly say they think her being hylian is more likely than her being a sheikah? Lets go over the evidence. 1.she has red eyes. Name one hylian who has red eyes. And terminans or whatever the term is don't count and i can give you several reasons why if you wish. 2.she claims to be decent from a tribe that served the royal family. Name one tribe known to protect/serve the royal family besides the sheikah. 3.the sheikah emblem can be found around her house. Yes incase you didnt know the sheikah emblem can be found in her home look at the front of the stove. 4she owned the wooden statue. The wooden statue which has the sheikah emblem on top. With all this evidence can anyone honestly say its more likely shes hylian? Shouldn't we go with whatever is most likly? Also i would like to point out that most of this wiki is already listing her as sheikah she is in the notable section of the sheikahs infobox and is in the sheikah category her page is the only one that dosnt name her sheikah. Also sorry for not signing my post before. 2sheikah4 (talk) 14:49, June 23, 2016 (UTC) :Well, you do know that her race was changed to "Unconfirmed" three years ago, right? —'Ceiling Master' 14:55, June 23, 2016 (UTC) Trust me i am aware, i was the one who fought for hylian being removed. I was simply trying to reason with the staff again, if the merchants are givin an exception to the policy due to how obvious it is they are gorons i think impaz should also get an exception. They both have no in game or word of god confirmation of their races yet they are treated differently. As i said she has red eyes which only sheikah are known to have. Just as they are made of rock which only gorons are known to be. The principle is the same between them. 2sheikah4 (talk) 15:03, June 23, 2016 (UTC) :It's probably a discussion that should be moved to the Impaz page, but for the record, Hilda, Kafei and the entirety of the Fabulously Rich Family all have red eyes. And probably half a dozen other (Hylian) characters I can't think of too (if you extend beyond Hylians every second villian in the series support red eyes. By no means a trait limited to the Sheikah). Oni Link 15:10, June 23, 2016 (UTC) For the record hilda is lorulean not hylian kafei is terminan and the rich family have blue/grey eyes in spider form and their eyes are closed in human form as for villans that does not really have relavents to this discusion as they are also not hylian and for that matter most of them are not even human. 2sheikah4 (talk) 15:19, June 23, 2016 (UTC) :So you just want Impaz to have "Sheikah" as her race in the infobox? Bringing Gorons into this is absolutely not the same principle; they are clearly Gorons, and this seems like a waste of a talk page to bring them into your Sheikah issue. —'Ceiling Master' 15:21, June 23, 2016 (UTC) ::To be honest I'm not even sure we should class Sheikah as their own distinct race. From what I can recall they've only ever been referred to as a tribe. They might have some similar physical features but they're probably all 100% Hylian when it comes down to biological factors (of course taking the term race to mean species as it's generally used in the Zelda universe). Oni Link 15:23, June 23, 2016 (UTC) If you wish to move this page to impaz talk page than i dont mind but i also dont know how to transfer content to another talk page. And they are mentioned as their own race sevral times i cant provide any quotes as it has been a while since ive played the specific games but i belive skyward sword specificly said such they where also said to be drivin to near "extiction" in OOT and forgive me if im wrong but i belive that term is used for races/species not tribes/clans and im pretty sure at E3 (it was awsome BTW) the old man refferes to the sheikah as a race. And for the reasons i listed above impaz is "clearly" a sheikah there is no other race she could be she has red eyes which no hylian has ever had shes not lorulean or terminan and she has pointed ears so shes not human either. That only leaves sheikah like i said most pages on this wiki already treat her as a sheikah im just trying to finally have her page reflect such. :Why do you think someone being from Termina or Lorule discounts them as being the same race as Hylians? A lot of these characters use the same models. There's nothing to suggest that they aren't biologically identical. Besides the mere fact that other characters have red eyes proves that it is by no means something unique for the Sheikah. It might not be something related to the Sheikah at all and is mere coincidence that the only one confirmed Sheikah we've seen so far has consistently had red eyes (true Zelda disguised as Sheik has red eyes but that could be more to do with giving herself an eye colour distinct from her own rather than trying to look like a Sheikah). Impa even has red eyes when she's not a sheikah like in the Oracle games. And in the original NES games, where she did claim to be part of an age old family serving the royal family, she has blue eyes.I've also searched through the text dump of Skyward Sword, the word Sheikah appears only appears once when not referring to Sheikah stones, specifically when Impa identifies herself as one. Oni Link 15:49, June 23, 2016 (UTC) :Also Red Link from Tri Force Heroes (who is a fully real character in canon. In that game the other Link's are only clones if you're playing 1 player) has red eyes. Oni Link 15:53, June 23, 2016 (UTC) I dont know what to say about the red link but im discounting the races from other diminsions because the sheikah where made/chosen/whatever by the goddess to guard her mortal incarnation as well as the triforce neither the triforce or hylia excist is termina so the odds of sheikah existing there is extreamly slim to none and if they did at one point exist than they likly simple interbred with the terminans and ceased being a distinct race long ago also to little is known about lorule to say anything but givin that the color scheme is inverted than it is likely red is a extreamly common lorulean eye color and blue would be the color that their equivilent (if any exist) to sheikah would likly have. Also if im remembering correctly red link only cannonicly exists as a doppel which is some form of animate doll or golem and therefor not a hylian.2sheikah4 (talk) 16:06, June 23, 2016 (UTC) Also i just looked at the artwork for red link and in no image does he have red eyes like the other 2 links he has black eyes.2sheikah4 (talk) 16:09, June 23, 2016 (UTC) :That's a fair enough point, the Sheikah probably don't exist in any other land. But it's also a pretty irrelevant point since it has no bearing on the people of alternate dimensions having red eyes and being 100% Hylian in every way aside from the name of their land. Red Link is a fully canonical character who appears when you play multyplayer, the intended way of playing the game. But you're right, he along with the other two Links have black eyes. I thought their eye colour changed along with their hair, my mistake. However we're still left with these facts. #Red eyes is not a trait exclusive to Sheikah. #We have precisely one canon Sheikah and one person disguised as a Sheikah to draw any conclusions about Sheikahs as a people. That is not a large enough case study to declare that all Sheikah must have red eyes. #Even assuming those two cases are fact, Impaz is still missing a tan that is a characteristic of both Impa and Sheik. #There's nothing I can find in the text of either Ocarina of Time or Skyward Sword that even remotely suggests the Sheikah are different enough from Hylians to be considered a separate race. #Being descended from a tribe or race does not automatically make one part of that race. If my great grand father was an Aboriginal it wouldn't make me an Aboriginal. So given all that there is more than enough reasonable doubt not to put Impaz's race down as Sheikah on her infobox. In fact I think we should remove Impa's race as Sheikah from her infobox and move it to her affiliations which is the way Hoiger Howgendoogen is listed. The Wind Tribe from The Minish Cap should also probably get the same treatment. This would mean we wouldn't have to list Impa's race by game which isn't even a good system since the NES games haven't even been included due to the ambiguity of how close to Sheikah her servitude is in those games. Oni Link 16:26, June 23, 2016 (UTC) Sheikah are their own race also hyrule historia says impa is a sheikah in the games before OOT so i dont get your point on that i will give you that being decended from a tribe does not make one a full blood member as a matter of fact her being part hylian would explain her lack of a tan although if i recall impa only had a tan in SS not OOT so i guess it is fine the way it is. :If Hyrule Historia confirms Impa as a Sheikah before Ocarina of Time then it blows absolutely any theory about the appearance of Sheikah right out of the water given how vastly different she looks in those games. She does have a tan in Ocarina of Time, it was definitely made more pronounced in Skyward Sword but it's very clear from her artwork and even more so in that incarnation's depiction in The Wind Waker. Comparing Zelda to Sheik, especially when she transforms, also makes it clear that she added a tan to disguise her appearance. Anyway since this conversation has run its course, I'm going to go ahead and move it to the Impaz page in a few minutes. I'll wait for CeilingMaster to give his input there as to whether we should list Sheikah as a race or affiliation in Impa's infobox. Oni Link 16:39, June 23, 2016 (UTC) Hyrule historia establishes impa before OOT as a sheikah via retcon according to it that is why she isnt depicted with red eyes in LOZ/AOL also the sheikah are a race not a tribe several facts support this including the prolouge of SS when it said hylian gathered the remaining humans (which apparently included hylians) and sent them skyward yet the "other races" stayed behind as impa stayes on the surface and the face there is no sheikah in skyloft the sheikah must have been one of the "Other races" also if they where a tribe than they wouldnt be able to go exctict they could just recruit new members and impa being one of the last sheikah in OOT would not hav been that big of a deal. Im fine with impaz staying unconfirmed but please do not try to argue that the sheikah are not a race. You don't recruit people into a tribe, it's not an organisation. You're either born into a tribe or you're invited in under special circumstances. Impa being the last Sheikah (which isn't even confirmed btw, the only references is that the Sheikah were thought to have died out in the public eye) is given just as much importance as the last member of a tribe would have. If not less so. As for Skyward Sword, Impa was evidently left behind but that doesn't mean the entire Sheikah race was. She is evidently a special case since Hylia has some fore knowledge of what was going to happen in the future and what key players needed to be present. You also can't take what's said in a prologue like that as absolute fact since it's lore, specifically lore passed down by the people of Sky Loft in this case. Even if you ware to take it as absolute fact, the Sheikah are not depicted visually in the prologue like every other sentient race unaligned with Demise. Oni Link 17:05, June 23, 2016 (UTC) :I honestly have no idea — and frankly, don't find it that important — if the Sheikah are considered a race or not. Although that does remind me of the category issue that should probably be bumped again. Anyway, I'm pretty sure that SS says stuff about "the five tribes of the Surface" when it talks about Hylia. Which wouldn't include the Sheikah as a race in SS. But, again, it just doesn't seem that important to me. —'Ceiling Master' 17:07, June 23, 2016 (UTC) Ok whatever lets just leave things as they are and move on with our days ok? :I'm not that pushed either to be honest. I just reckon it'd help clean up the Impa's infobox and as an affiliation we could safely include Impaz since she does clearly have some connection. The Sheikah are clearly a race by Earth standard, it's just in the Zelda universe things become a lot more muddled due to them using it interchangeably with species. If we were to de-racify the Shekah then we'd probably have to exam the Gerudo too which is all a bit mess since they might or might not be biologically the same as Hylians given their odd gender distribution. Hopefully Breath of the Wild will shed some more light on the matter of the Sheikah. Despite their popularity they have been an annoyingly underutilized part of the series. Oni Link 17:35, June 23, 2016 (UTC) Yes hopefully BOTW clears some stuff up i am vehemently against deraceifiying sheikah though i feel it would be inacurate so i say we leave things as they are and hope nintendo eventually confirms impaz as a sheikah as maybe even clear up some more discrepatcies with the sheikah.